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And yet, he supports his points with extensive references to ancient primary sources. What is more, I think he is largely right in his picture of the Greeks, although his treatment is limited in scope and depth. He paints in broad strokes, however, that willfully avoid much nuance. In a narural, he seems to be saying that Greeks thought of sexual desire as a primary force of nature which must be controlled in certain ways and in certain of its manifestations. He seems also to be suggesting sotto voce that the Greeks were right the tone of the book is a vindication, defense, and praise of things Greek, he never explicitly condemns any aspect of their treatment of sexuality, and he prostitutes in port hedland out with Bill Clinton [whom he obviously despises]: he agrees with the views he finds in the "Greeks".

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The idea is to exploit sexuality to further society, the state, and property. The catamite was the worst of all for the Greeks.

In a nutshell, he seems to be saying that Greeks thought of sexual desire as a primary force of nature which must be controlled in certain ways and in certain of its manifestations. He paints in broad thorntno, however, that willfully avoid much nuance. He frequently quotes or cites Plato as though Plato's views are simply "the Greek view," but Plato's dialogues are aimed at a rarefied intellectual coterie.

Hence his verdict that Hastings pa housewives personals though homosexuality was wrong is just wrong itself. escortss

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As to 1, consider that in Greece the sexual desires of women are far more controlled than those of men: men who want to penetrate are encouraged to bijoux escorts ibbenburen their desires in many ways. He seems also to be suggesting sotto voce that the Greeks were right the tone of the book is a vindication, defense, and praise of things Greek, he never explicitly condemns any aspect of their treatment of sexuality, and he starts out with Bill Clinton [whom he obviously despises]: he agrees with the views he finds in the "Greeks".

The passive homosexual and the adulterer were creatures of appetites that drove them to excess. Another problem with Thornton and with "constructionists" is that he does not sufficiently allow sexuality to be a matter of individual taste.

Thornton sexuality

thronton What we mean by "homosexuality" is foreign to the Greek view. Socrates thought knowledge was the key to virtue, but Euripides denied that In the end I suppose I have to admit that you could have your own solipsistic sexuality. Some Lake havasu city escort back pages saw homosexuality as deviant, but a phenomenon of nature.

Is it a man's nature to penetrate, i. Now if the argument were that sexual desire in and of itself is destructive and so must be controlled, it is clear that those penetrating desires would be as much or more in need of control than the penetrated's desires. What if we turn the tables and think of it as "engulfing" and "being engulfed"? That is active. Humanity was defined as the rational control of the appetites, and so anyone who willingly gave in to sexual urges was less than human.

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The Greeks were, in fact, aware of the problems of appeals to nature, at least those who followed certain sophists like Protagoras were. Is it all about who is passive and who is active, and can you simply take the set of those actions and people who are active and call them "good" and the set of those actions and people who are passive and escorte norway them "bad.

Shame was the control on this: one would not give in because of the shame involved. THe main societal control of sexuality is marriage.

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Mainly they condemned the passive homosexual They are discouraged from only a few avenues, such as adultery. A large part of the Symposium is, in a sense, a glorification of same-sex attraction.

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Aristophanes' picture of us as split units likewise seems to posit homesexuality and heterosexuality as matters of one's nature that are neither good nor bad. BUT within certain vague parameters, how we view the acts we engage in IS what they are, and escorta we view them is culturally specific and "constructed. Sure, the basic acts and permutations of putting parts with parts are fixed in some way.

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Perhaps Thornton is right in that the idea that thornon must be controlled pregnant escort new horsholm be acceptable if it the way that view were cashed out in a society was consistently applied to all, not just the privileged males. For not all natural things are good. Summary of Thornton Chapter 1 Greeks thought of Eros as "a turbulent and potentially pernicious force that overthrows the nayural and judgement and threatens the social and political orders that make human life possible.

But it is not.

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I suppose it's more of a partnership. Also, once you do one thing contrary to nature, you will inevitably do other things contrary to nature. Onanism is of course an option, but it is nothing new. Following nattural, I will talk about the problem of speaking of the Greeks as though they had one unified view of what sexuality is.

Males are, apparently, penetrators by nature.

Excessive sexual desire was considered a disease. I will start with some basic logical problems I have, then go on to talk about "constructedness" or sexuality.

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Think about the penetrator versus penetrated active versus passive distinction. And the penetrated would engulf. In other words, you will be womanish in all other things: you will be a coward. Finally, I will try to summarize what Thornton has to say.

I do not have carefully formulated views about it really, but my views do not include seeing it primarily as active versus passive. Aristophanes condemns passive homosexuality as the explanation of Athenian decline.

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But nonetheless sexualities that have anything like longevity to them must belong in communities. Is that how you think of sexuality? If sexual desire is naturally destructive, then it seems that 1. More specifically, being penetrated makes thorntom or shows that you are womanish. The manifestations of eros that the Greeks thought must be controlled include any and all desires to be penetrated, whether the penetrated is a woman, boy, man, or anything else, but especially if madera pa milf personals are a male.

In that sense, sexuality and the morality that attaches to it is a constructed thing. So it's all in how you think about it and what importance you attach to the concepts natural escorts thornton create. It's all you really need to know, he seems to say. Of course, you may decide on your own to change your sexuality any which way you want and try to stick with that, but I would argue that 1 you won't "succeed" in still having something that is a sexuality if you change it beyond certain limits I think Plato changed it beyond those limits: I don't see how knowing the forms thornhon erotic, although I suppose it could be a passion-arousing experienceand 2 it usually takes two or more to tango.

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